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Ken Switzer interviews the one and only nut-sack-stapler
It’s about 2 a.m. on December 28th ,2002, I’m walking down West 46th Street in NYC with Steve-O, and I just hit “Record” on my tape recorder . . .
When I was 10 years old, I didn’t exactly know what sex, drugs, and rock ‘n roll really meant, but I was pretty goddamn sure I was gonna find out. That’s all my life has been since the age of 10, a whatever-it-takes mission to party like Motley Crüe.
They were your biggest influence?
Kind of, yeah. I feel like Motley Crüe, as rock ‘n roll music, isn’t a sound but it’s distinctly an attitude. Those guys didn’t care to be great musicians; they simply, as a means to an end, did what it took to party like rock stars. Shout At The Devil is a masterpiece, but they didn’t really care to play music, they just did what it took be rock stars. And I didn’t really care to staple my ball-sack to my leg, but I was ready to do what it took to party like Motley Crüe.
Why was that so important?
I don’t know, I’ve had real issues with authority my whole life; I never liked being told what to do. I was always kind of resentful about how privileged I was growing up.
You were one of those privileged kids, huh?
Yeah, my dad’s like the president of Nabisco. So I was always embarrassed about how big my house was and shit.
Why were you embarrassed?
Because what did I do [to deserve it]? I’d say the biggest motivating factor of my entire life has been to not be recognized as my father’s son—I wanted to earn my own shit.
Are you proud of your dad?
Absolutely, yeah.
Do you respect what he does?
Of course I do, yeah. My dad is the only human being that’s ever read all of my contracts all the way through—I have yet to read one in its entirety. I always had a lot of respect for my dad, I just didn’t want to be known as his son—I think my dad respects me for that, too. (Out of breath from walking up stairs to my friend’s apartment). God, walking up stairs sucks! So much shit about New York City just sucks—I fucking hate New York!
What do you hate about it?
It’s crampy, over-crowded, just a nightmare. Like today, I was freezing cold, I couldn’t get a cab . . . I mean, what I do like about New York a lot is how culturally diverse it is— it’s OK to be yourself, you don’t have to be embarrassed if you have a fucked up turban on your head, racial tension is at a minimum. I mean, it’s really uncharacteristic of America how tolerant New York is, it really reminds more of London. So the cultural diversity I’m down with, and how people are OK with being different, but then again the sheer proximity—it’s like being in a crowded elevator all day long.
On skateboarding . . .
I think teamwork is fucking horseshit, because all it really does is teach you to accept failure at the hands of less capable people than you. A lot of the time when you lose it’s because the rest of the team sucks more than you, and that to me is not a good reason to lose. And a lot of the time when people win it’s because the rest of the team is stronger than they are, and that’s just bullshit. But skateboarding is a totally individual activity, where like you’re not listening to a coach, you’re working for yourself . . . So skateboarding really separates the pussies from the focused, driven people, because it requires so much passion and determination to so much as even ollie up a curb, that by the time you have fundamental skills, you’ve already proven that you’re super motivated and driven and focused.
Yeah, and you’re just competing with yourself. You could be out there all day trying to land one trick, and if you finally get it, you’re so psyched; it’s the best feeling.
Exactly! And it’s like carving off a goal and accomplishing it, it’s just so rewarding. I mean, from the days when I was crushing soda cans on their side to try and jump over them . . . It’s the same thing if I’m doing a 360 double kick-flip shove-it, it’s the same feeling of accomplishment as the first time I ollied up a curb. It’s progression, everyday, provided that you approach it right—every time you do it, you actually become better. It’s good because people look at life as a real uphill battle and that it’s impossible to win, but skateboarding taught me to just break off accomplishable tasks, just work really hard to accomplish them, and that’s something I apply to my whole life. And then the other thing too about skateboarding is that, in the process of becoming competent, there’s no way around falling down and hurting yourself all the time. So you become accustomed to bodily injury for “the cause,” and everywhere you go and everything you do constitutes vandalism and pits you against authority. It sets you up in a position where, you don’t feel like a bad person or that you’re doing anything wrong, but you’re distinctly in a position of opposition to authority. You work really hard at skateboarding, you hurt yourself very regularly, you’re pitted against authority, and there’s no other sport or activity where people are so prone to filming themselves—like, tennis players don’t make sponsor-me videos. So it’s like running around and hurting yourself, having trouble with cops and security guards while filming yourself, those are all the values that I . . . Everything that I know that’s worth knowing at all I learned from skateboarding and heavy metal music.
I completely understand what you’re saying, but it seems like there’s a bit of a contradiction there, in that, skating is so individualistic—you can be out there all day working on something and if you get it, you’re congratulating yourself. But what you’re doing now is more of a public thing . . .
Yeah, but even when I was working so hard at skateboarding I was very deliberately learning tricks for the sole purpose of impressing people, to have some kind of reward at the end of the day.
That was what motivated you?
Absolutely. ‘If I learn how to slide down this banister on my skateboard, I’m gonna be the man.’ It was all about being able to film it and to impress people with it. So yeah, even skateboarding I did for some kind of reward at the end of the day.
But why was that so important? Not to sound all cheesy like, ‘Did your parents not give you enough attention when you were a kid?’ But . . .?
Well, my parents were really, really rich, like I was saying—I grew up super privileged. And my first words I ever spoke were in Portuguese because my parents didn’t really have time to bother with me, so it was actually my parent’s servants that actually taught me my first words. I’m not saying I had bad parents, I have no animosity whatsoever, but I definitely had a lot of freedom growing up. And also, we moved a lot, we never stayed in one place for more than a year or two throughout my entire upbringing. So I was in a situation where any relationships I established were always cut short because I would move to the next country or wherever. So it just seemed like every relationship was just going to inevitably come to an end, so I began investing less and less emotionally in relationships that I established, and with every move . . . I was always the new guy, I learned to not feel bad about fucking off and dropping everyone I knew. And when I’d get to the next place, I was the new guy again, I knew I wouldn’t be around for long, so I was just like, I wanna make a fucking impression right now. And really I guess what validated me emotionally had more to do with the impression I made in the short term. And like anyone who is like an artist, or maybe anyone who has any success at all, whatever your strongest advantage is also the same as your strongest disadvantage. Probably the only way to be really successful is to be focused enough on your goal that you give 100% of yourself to what it is that you want to accomplish, and just the very nature of giving 100% of yourself to anything leaves absolutely zero for anything that isn’t your goal.
Have you always been that focused?
Yeah, even if I didn’t realize that I was, I’d say that I was.
Were you pretty good at winning people over when you’d move to a new place?
It was kind of make or break. I wouldn’t say I was good at winning people over, but for better or worse, I made an impression immediately.
And that was the only thing that was important, making some kind of impression?
Yeah, totally. I would be just as happy to freak them out as I would to make them happy.
Did you have close friends at all?
Yeah, definitely. I mean “friend” to me is any situation where you’re glad to know someone and both people mutually benefit. I mean “benefit” is a weird word for it, but it’s got to be a two way street.
What do you consider a friend to be?
I consider a friend someone who considers it worth it for that person and myself to spend time together. People ask, “What do you like to do?” And the answer is, I like to work. People are always like, “Don’t you ever want to take a break? Don’t you ever want to take a vacation?” And the answer is no, because I’m really happiest when I’m working, and my life is already pretty much a permanent vacation, I’m a professional vacationer, really. When I worked on cruise ships as a circus clown for Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines, I was a professional vacationer. When I worked in nightclubs and stuff, I was a professional partier. On TV and in movies, I’m a professional moron, I suppose—even though I’d like to consider myself professionally conceited. (we laugh) And now a lot of things have been coming together in my life and I’m realizing that I’m a professional joy-spreader, I suppose.
Are you pretty happy?
Absolutely.
Even with all the partying . . . I mean, I know sometimes after a night of drinking a lot and doing drugs, I wake up the next morning . .
. Like, feeling ashamed?
Yeah.
Yeah, I know what you mean, but there’s something exciting about that, like the food that tastes the best is the food that’s worst for you, you know? The most rewarding behavior is like the naughty . . . we’re like compelled to do what we’re not supposed to do.
So you think that’s just inherent?
Yeah, it’s not just me; I’d say everyone is kind of attracted to breaking rules.
Jumping back to something you said before, do you consider what you do work?
Absolutely I consider it work, and at the risk of sounding boastful, I feel that I fall into the significantly under 2% of the population whose hobby constitutes their career. It’s not unusual for me to say that everything I do is “work,” it’s unusual for anybody to be able to call what they genuinely want to be doing “work.” It’s a really marginal sliver of the population that enjoys what they do for a living. And organized religion has always been about herding people and letting people wrap their head around being really insignificant—I have a chip on my shoulder about organized religion, I don’t like it being shoved in my face. Even in the case of school, I feel that school absolutely gives you the tools to learn what it is that you want to learn, but really school is less about teaching people than it is conditioning them, and they’re not conditioning them to learn, they’re conditioning them to obey. And that’s proven by the fact that, when people graduate from university they send out their diplomas with their resume to try and get a job, but not one of those people who they send their resumes to with their diploma gives a rat’s ass what their G.P.A. was. All their diploma serves to do is it establishes that these people are going to be reliable, on time, and do what they’re told. But then again, if I was able to have more of a voice in spreading that message that people should be individuals, than our entire society would go to shit, because our society is really based on like 99% of the population doing what they’re told. If everybody really thought for themselves and were really independent . . .
But that’s what you’re promoting, right?
I’m promoting independent thought, and I would love to see that kind of anarchy, but that’s what it would be is anarchy, if everybody did what they wanted.
Right, no one would pick up the trash, that type of thing.
Exactly. And I love the idea of that, but I also see the danger in it too. I think it’s a special blessing when people are able to pursue their own individual dreams, and there are plenty of people like that out there, but I think if you encourage certain people to have a dream, it’s not gonna work.
Getting back to what you were saying before about religion teaching people that they’re insignificant . . .
And it’s founded in threats: If you don’t join the herd and do what you’re told, than you’re going to go to hell. It’s completely founded in intimidation. It’s basically for dumb-asses to herd them into flipping burgers for the rest of their lives. And even people who aren’t dumb-asses, they don’t want to go to hell, that’s really the premise of the whole idea, and in the interest of not going to hell, it’s like an actual, deliberate transaction where you’re gonna be good for the distinct purpose of not going to hell and earning a place in heaven. So at the end of the day, nobody is being good for the sake of being a good person and feeling good about themselves, they’re being good deliberately for the self-serving purpose of earning their place in heaven. Which, to me, if you’re gonna be self-serving, you might as well be self-serving when you stand to benefit in this lifetime, rather than throw your entire life out the window for some idea of a heaven, which came from the motherfuckers who threw rocks at everyone who thought for themselves. Yeah, I have a huge chip on my shoulder when it comes to organized religion. I mean, if people genuinely benefit from giving themselves to the lord Jesus Christ, I don’t wanna interfere or get in the way of that, but I don’t have a whole lot of respect for them if that’s what they subscribe to. As long as I can remember, I’ve always said that I don’t need religion or folklore from centuries ago, because I know that I have a conscience, and I know that when I do something wrong I genuinely feel like a bad person, and I don’t like to feel like a piece of shit. So in the interest of feeling good about myself, I have to . . . my conscience has always regulated my behavior, I want to feel like a good guy so I behave well. Then I just recently had an overwhelmingly religious experience, where what I perceive to be like really, really significant miracles were all strung together so uncoincidentally that it was just fucked.
You really believe that?
I really believe that whatever God is, it made its presence known, and I perceive that as what I call miracles.
So you do acknowledge the existence of a god?
Absolutely, and only recently have I consciously thought of it. The point at the end of the day is, if you live in a good way and if you’re a good person, and if you do the right thing, that will be rewarded—God is good. But I’m not looking to convert anyone to my religious believes.
But what was your exposure to religion when you were growing up?
Um, Western Civilization in high school, where they taught me about how they threw fucking rocks at people for saying the world was round. When people had minds of their own, they posed a threat. People were controlled by the church, and when people thought for themselves and they actually had leadership skills and they had individual ideas, that posed such a threat to the church that the church had fucking rocks thrown at these people. They literally killed people, drowned them to make sure they weren’t a witch. If you survived a drowning then you were a witch and you had to be exterminated, and if you drowned, and your life was over, than it was like, “Well, I guess they weren’t a witch after all.” I learned about that in high school and I was just like, fuck that, the fact that the church is still around is testimony only to intimidation and greed and corruption and wrongdoing.
Was your family religious?
My family was Protestant, but I’d say that if my family had a religion, it was capitalism. (we laugh)
What makes you significant?
The fact that I can make something tangible and immortal that, when people are exposed to it, their shitty-ass day and all their problems are not an issue. Like, pick whatever is that made someone’s day the shittiest day of their life, and then sit them down in front of one of my videos or expose them to my work, and while they’re being exposed to what I do, they’re distracted enough that I’ve distanced them from their problems—that’s significant to me, big time.
Is that more important than your life itself? I mean, if you had died right after your first video, would that have been enough?
I would have been proud to have done anything, so of course that would have been enough. And what I’ve survived in my life, it’s amazing that I’m even still alive.
But do you think long-term?
I often say that I’m not interested in living long, but I wanna live forever.
So that’s more important?
Yeah, because no matter what, as a human being, it’s a catch-22 situation. Our existence is a cruel joke that’s being played on us, because we only know for certain that we’re gonna die, and the only other thing we know for sure is that we’re scared as fuck of dying.
Do you feel like you’re making people’s lives better?
Absolutely, man. I’m OK with idea of simply distracting people from what’s wrong with their lives, because it’s a sad truth that most people don’t like their jobs, most married couples don’t love each other, and most parents have really bad relationships with their kids. I’d say on the whole, humans make more mistakes than they do good moves. And there’s no way around it, it’s really just like this bad situation that we’re in, so anything I can do to alleviate that I consider to be significant. People say to me, “Are you proud of stapling your nut-sack to your leg?” Well, you know, if it gets someone’s mind off their shitty day, then fuck yeah I’m proud of it. I mean, granted, maybe my trivial distraction only serves as a Band-Aid and doesn’t actually do anything to help the problem, but whatever, if a Band-Aid helps in the short term, than I’m ready to provide one.
Do you feel like you chose this or it chose you?
Distinctly, it chose me.
Did you ever have any other ideas about what you might have wanted to do?
Yeah, my first conscious ambition was to play a creative role in the world of advertising, because I’ve really been fascinated by how people influence one another. Persuasion has always really fascinated me; I’ve always wanted to persuade people one way or another.
Do you see a sinister side to that?
Absolutely, yeah, I see a sinister side to everything.
So why would you want to be a part of that?
Well, that’s like saying, the world is really a bad place, so why would you want to be a part it?
Yeah, but you have control over what you do in the world.
But there’s a good side and a bad side to everything, so if persuading people is a sinister thing, than maybe I could make it less sinister, maybe that would be a good reason to be involved in it.
Yeah, that’s possible. Are you afraid about going to court and everything?
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried about it, but I’m not lying when I say I do my best not to worry about it.
Do you feel like your First Amendment rights are being infringed upon?
I think it’s pretty ridiculous to try to send somebody to prison for showing their wiener to a crowd of people over the age of 18, who paid to see me and were well aware that that’s part of my repertoire. Howard Stern and the E Channel felt that it wasn’t obscene and played it on the air. Granted, they pixilated my genitalia, but they still included it in the content of their show. So if it’s not even obscene enough to be kept off of national television, than I don’t see any reason why I should be serving prison time for it. I don’t want to think about it too much, and I definitely don’t want to be over-confident. I would always hope for the best but plan for the worst.
Final thoughts . . .
Is there anything you haven’t done that you want to do?
Oh yeah, there’s plenty, my “to-do” list is much longer than my “done” list.
What’s number one on it?
Are you talking about stunts or . . . ?
Anything.
I want to get my book deal; I want to write an autobiography. Everything I do is so obvious to me, it’s black and white, it’s very clear that everything I do is to achieve historical significance. I know that I’m going to die, and I know that I’m scared as fuck of dying, so the only way that I can wrap my head around that is to leave tangible documentation of my life that will distract people from their problems after I die, that will bring joy to other people, that will prove that I existed. If I’m gonna be a tree in the woods, fuck yeah I wanna make a sound!
For more on Steve-O's night out in NYC, check out Tricia Romano's 'Fly Life' column in the Village Voice.
For a related article on Steve-O and the Jackass crew by Ken Switzer go here.
Photos by: Elizabeth Hlotyak
